The Pre-Shift Podcast presented by 7shifts breaks down everything you’ve ever wanted to know about running a restaurant better. Conversations with some of the biggest names, newest players, and industry innovators bring key insights into how they grew their businesses. Host DJ Costantino asks probing questions to get to know restauranteurs, chefs, and executives better and find out where they came from, how they got to where they are, and what lessons they learned along the way.
On this episode, we’re joined by Jason Hammel, Chef and Owner of Lula Cafe
Guest Bio
Chef and owner Jason Hammel grew up in New Haven, CT and is the product of a tight Italian family. He studied writing at Brown University and then traveled in Italy where an accidental stay in an apartment above a produce market left a lasting impact and presaged his career as a chef. Upon returning to the U.S., he received his M.A. in English and moved to Chicago where he met his wife, musician and Lula co-founder, Amalea Tshilds. They live in Logan Square with their two children, Ismene and Cass.
Hammel’s writing has appeared in Bon Appetit and Lucky Peach/MAD feed. He is currently working on a cookbook to be released by Phaidon.
Additional Resources
Listen, rate, and subscribe!
Spotify
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
YouTube
TikTok
7shifts Blog
Credits
Host & Executive Producer: D.J. Costantino
Editor: Fina Charleston
Producer: Samantha Fung
Designer: Jake Sinclair
The Pre-Shift Podcast presented by 7shifts breaks down everything you’ve ever wanted to know about running a restaurant better. Conversations with some of the biggest names, newest players, and industry innovators bring key insights into how they grew their businesses. Host DJ Costantino asks probing questions to get to know restauranteurs, chefs, and executives better and find out where they came from, how they got to where they are, and what lessons they learned along the way.
On this episode, we’re joined by Jason Hammel, Chef and Owner of Lula Cafe
Guest Bio
Chef and owner Jason Hammel grew up in New Haven, CT and is the product of a tight Italian family. He studied writing at Brown University and then traveled in Italy where an accidental stay in an apartment above a produce market left a lasting impact and presaged his career as a chef. Upon returning to the U.S., he received his M.A. in English and moved to Chicago where he met his wife, musician and Lula co-founder, Amalea Tshilds. They live in Logan Square with their two children, Ismene and Cass.
Hammel’s writing has appeared in Bon Appetit and Lucky Peach/MAD feed. He is currently working on a cookbook to be released by Phaidon.
Additional Resources
Listen, rate, and subscribe!
Spotify
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
YouTube
TikTok
7shifts Blog
Credits
Host & Executive Producer: D.J. Costantino
Editor: Fina Charleston
Producer: Samantha Fung
Designer: Jake Sinclair
Hello and welcome back to the Pre-Shift podcast presented by Seven Shifts. My name is DJ and I'll be your host, bringing you stories, advice and strategies from restaurant industry leaders. Today, i'm joined by Jason Hamill.
Speaker 2:My name is Jason Hamill. I am the chef owner of Lula Cafe in Logan Square in Chicago.
Speaker 1:Jason Hamill opened Lula Cafe in Chicago's Logan Square neighborhood back in 1999. And more than 20 years later, the award-winning Farm to Table institution is one of the city's most celebrated restaurants. For an industry with a high rate of first-year closures, Lula Cafe's longevity is a testament to what Hamill calls a youthful mindset.
Speaker 2:I mean, i think about this all the time, as I'm hoping to do another 25 maybe, or at least another five or 10. So what are the conditions that allow a restaurant to last as long as it does? I think we have a long history in the neighborhood that even predates us. We sort of inherited a space and a lot of goodwill And I think really focusing on the foundations of our origin, which is being young and being interested in community and connections between people, really focusing on that on a daily basis, is what has kept us sort of young and fresh into our 20s. So I think staying open to change, having sort of a youthful mindset, a beginner's mindset, is one of the reasons why we've made it this far, and keeping that will be, hopefully, the reason we keep going.
Speaker 1:And that youthful mindset permeates through everything from menu to the team experience.
Speaker 2:There is an element to that in the cooking, meaning we're willing to try new dishes and new ideas in the food, not repeat dishes, not just recycle things that we've done in the past. I mean that's a lot easier But we've never done that because it creates a new aha moment in a restaurant. I also think it's really respecting the paths of the young people who work for us, trying to work with them on what they want to do with their lives and being engaged with us. I have a lot of great people who are studying to be psychologists or in bands and doing a lot of creative work, and really being engaged with them and allowing them to thrive in the space also sort of keeps you open to change and maintains that beginner's mindset.
Speaker 1:Lula has also been able to maintain many long standing employees by recognizing that restaurants can be a career and recognizing the role that a restaurant job can have in someone's life.
Speaker 2:I mean Natalie Sternberg is our director of hospitality. She's been there since day one. Local cost is a server who's been there over 15 years. My executive chef's been over there over 10, so a lot of people.
Speaker 1:What do you think has enabled like, what about the restaurant? has enabled people to stay around for that long? I mean, nowadays it's rare for people to stay at a restaurant for three months, six months, let alone 10 years. What have you done to create an environment where people are making it a career?
Speaker 2:I mean, i think I certainly think the restaurant in the free has always been a career for certain folks And I want to emphasize that that's very possible for people, especially when they also have other pursuits that could work, whether it's raising a family or doing that kind of thing or it's creative pursuits.
Speaker 2:I think that those sort of paths can cohabitate well. That said, i think like why they stay? I think because I mean I hope that they're treated with respect and compensated fairly and that they like the team And that being part of this team is something that's important to them in their lives and that they contribute a whole lot and it would not be what it is without those people. And in the pandemic we had more previous to the pandemic I had a staff that had been there for a really long time And we certainly I certainly felt the pain of losing some long term employees, not to other restaurants, but just to the industry in general, when the pandemic happened and we came back. So the ones that have stayed are even more special, like more integral to the space and the place, and people come looking for them and want to talk to them, and there is much a part of Lula, as I am.
Speaker 1:On Lula Cafe's website. They list their mission and values, which include creating joyful moments for the community and promoting care, respect, integrity, safety and transparency. I've linked to the full version in the show notes, but something that caught my eye when reading them while prepping for my chat with Jason was that they were revised on June 8th 2021. And I wanted to understand why and what went into that revision.
Speaker 2:The pandemic gave us, as with many people, time to reflect, and obviously the industry has a lot of reflecting to do And we just wanted to formalize the reflection process. So we set up a weekly meeting. There were only, i think there are eight or 10 of us at that point And we were not open for business like regular business, we were just doing takeout. We did that for a really long time And we met every week to say, well, what are we about? What do we want to be about once the imagined return to business actually happens? Let's list a number of values that we had pre-pandemic and some aspirational values And meet to discuss that. And we continue to have.
Speaker 2:We hope we have a meeting scheduled tomorrow with the management team to continue to talk about the mission and vision of the restaurant. I think it's important to recognize that reflection and thoughtfulness about who you are and what you want to be and how you want to live is important. But then you have to operationalize the ambitions you have ethically And, if you want to live, lead a value oriented and value first business. it's not just about writing it down, but it's about performing it and behaving it every day. That's where the hard part comes.
Speaker 1:Totally. What were some of the things that changed when you kind of went in and reworked that vision?
Speaker 2:Sure, i mean the obvious one that a lot of people talk about is that we took on a service fee model and changed to minimum wage, which we had been using previously to do what we could to rectify the historic imbalance between the front and the back of the house in terms of compensation. We made a lot of progress toward that. It's not a perfect situation by any means. Tipping and restaurant compensation in the United States is really fraught with complexities and difficulties, but we made a stab at it and we're sticking with it. It's working for us and it did have an impact on for the better on a lot of people's lives. We also added some benefits that are we had always had 401K and health insurance as benefits, but we did add parental leave and we also have a better than industry standard PTO policy and also vacation pay for people who've stuck with us for a while. The longer you work, the more paid time off you will get. So I do have people who can take vacations now paid vacations.
Speaker 1:One of the biggest changes that Amel made was a shift from paying the tipped minimum wage or subminimum wage, to paying above the minimum wage. After decades of running the old model, the transition wasn't the smoothest, but it did leave the positive changes for the business, including better staff well-being, better retention and little issues hiring.
Speaker 2:See, it was difficult. We didn't do well in the beginning. It took us time to really figure things out. That said, we were committed to it in terms of a value, so we stuck with it during some some rougher moments and now we feel like we're in a good place with it. But that was simultaneous to coming back and we had limited seating and there were the whole fight over vaccinations and just the whole turmoil of the pandemic. It wasn't a fair playing field in terms of trying a new model out, of course, and it did take time to settle into it. But yeah, it's certainly different. There's a lot of conversation around it. I haven't found it like necessarily good for the business, but it's great for a lot of people on the team. If you're only profit minded, it's not the best choice for a lot of people, but if you're trying to take care of folks and level out the playing field, it could be a good choice for some folks.
Speaker 1:Now, it's one thing, of course, to write down and codify your core values, but, as we covered on the show a few times, you do have to put them into practice. It's different for every restaurant, every leadership team, every business, but the way that Hamill tackles this is through training and providing opportunities for education.
Speaker 2:I mean, one of the things that I think is lacking in restaurants is leadership training for management. We're trying to get there. It's really difficult to do when you're busy all day long, every day. So I think if a value is education and like you're having your staff meetings and you're doing wine tastings and you're teaching cooks how to cook and you know, and it's all about you know, teaching people who do not know something, that something so that they grow And then they grow and then they become managers and then like just everything stops, you know, i mean for them. That's a huge problem. It's very endemic in the industry that like learning stops at the you know manager stage. You become a sous chef and you're like, okay, i got to do the orders and clean at the end of the night and check people out And like there's no like development. So that's something we're trying to work on. So operationalizing that means like providing opportunities for people to grow and educate and even if they're managers.
Speaker 2:Another, you know, if respecting you know folks identity is something that is a value, like really paying attention to their needs and you know their life needs, whether it's like you know, a scheduling situation or like a communication identity situation, like really respecting that in your language and your in your behavior. That can be operationalized, and I mean there's there are many examples like that, but the biggest one is, you know, really giving healthy feedback on a more regular basis, which does not happen enough in our industry and does not have enough in my restaurant. That's one of the top things that we're trying to focus on now is like giving constructive help, helpful feedback, in a timely manner so that people can grow, rather than like punitive or controlling. You know, you know feedback once there's a problem, so that's that's another way that we can operationalize that, by like scheduling this and like making sure my managers meet with team members on a regular basis, etc.
Speaker 1:The communication, transparency and education that Jason talks about tells the story of how the restaurant industry has evolved, and not just since 2019. Having owned and operated Lula since 1999, jason has a unique lens as to how the industry has changed the resources to do their jobs effectively means like really listening and then responding to needs and requests.
Speaker 2:So I think what's different now is I spend a lot less time doing like a lot less time cooking, or like being on the line, in a lot more time trying to process how to be a better communicator as an organization Like what parts of the organizations are not like communicating in the most effective way and which ones need more support to be able to communicate better. And then let's try to listen to listen in an empathetic and active way so that I can make the changes, cause restaurants are all about change. I mean, it's like constantly about adapting and change and working on your feet. So I think that employees expect a lot of transparency and communication and they deserve that, and that's what those of the standards we're trying to meet.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and that's been kind of. maybe that's what the biggest change, i think overall and like in terms of they say, you know, the employees now are not the ones that of 10 years ago, or you know, there's a lot of talk about that kind of stuff and this new generation wants different things, but I think at the very core of it, they just want to be communicated with, like in a clear and concise way. that's not like leaving people in the dark.
Speaker 2:For sure. I mean, and there was also a lot of, there was a lot of exploitation of people and not, you know, not in every restaurant, but in many, and you know people are rightfully aware of that and have learned to set boundaries to themselves. And that is, you know, 100% the direction we need to go.
Speaker 1:Another piece of that puzzle is technology. Lula opened online ordering scheduling software and KDSs did not exist. But while Hamel recognizes their utility, he also knows that there are just some things that tech cannot replace.
Speaker 2:I think it's very helpful. I mean, certainly, scheduling software is incredibly, incredibly helpful when you have a team of 100 people, you know, needing to switch shifts and communicate with each other Like that's been a really helpful change to adapt to that. I think that there are parts of my job, frankly, that like I'm all about AI taking over. I mean, like I am expediting a 600 person brunch, i mean looking at all those tickets and like you know my 51 year old brain, like processing how many of certain items are on fire, at what time and when to fire the next batch Like a computer could definitely do a better job than me. I don't think that the computer would be very good at motivating the folks that are on the line to like cook
Speaker 2:well when they're dealing with that. So, like I would love a system and, like you know, toast seven shifts. Anybody like hear me out like that would process the information that's coming in a way that would like better suit the line in terms of expediting. So I think that technology is probably gonna come sooner than later, you know, and I would love to use it. I don't think that would change the fact that I want to stand in front of them and say, like you know, that egg I'd like to do you to, you know, not use that egg and use that one. And this is why, because that one looks better than this one.
Speaker 2:And this is why, and like the cooking technique can be changed to produce the better quality, or just like to joke with them and be like you know, when it's busy like that, you need some camaraderie, you need some like you know, you need to feel like the you know we're, you know having fun at what we're doing and not just getting beat up. So that's gonna still be my role and to try to inspire and teach. My role does not need to be counting how many modified plates there are in a you know 100 person pickup. You know that's that could. Technology could do that better. So yeah, there's some things that human touch will never be replaced by, you know.
Speaker 1:As Lula Cafe enters a third decade of operations, Hemel and his team are looking to continue to evolve and keep that curious mindset that's kept them going throughout the years.
Speaker 2:I do want to advocate in the industry to sort of continue leading with values and care and kindness. So that's going to continue to develop in our space And I want to develop like people who want to grow. On our team I have a number of people who want to keep learning and do new things And I'd like to be part of that process with them. So I don't know where that's going to lead, but I've got great, great people on my team that want to grow. So my next 25 years, or whatever, are going to be about supporting those people and their growth and continuing to provide like a community space that's kind and generous and thoughtful.
Speaker 2:So that's just like you know that's kind of business as usual, but also nothing's usual in restaurants. You know like it's a tough road and like a challenge And you know I'm sure that there'll be some surprises down the road. And like we have exciting things. We have a cookbook coming out in October And you know we're looking forward to supporting that in some fun ways. So there's going to be a lot of fun things that are going to be coming out.
Speaker 1:Thank you for joining us for the pre-shift podcast presented by Seven Shifts. Be sure to follow us on social media for new episodes and bonus content And, as always, my inbox is open. Dj at sevenshiftscom. Let me know what you think of the show, who you want to hear, or just say hello, we'll see you next time.